I know you all are “voting for Jesus” and are “Kingdom focused”– I also know I have gotten so many emails about how confusing the election is this year! Some readers have sent me links or posted some really good thoughts that I thought might help us all out.
A couple of new sites readers sent me that I now LOVE:
-I ditched Lie Count for FACT CHECK thanks to my good friends Joel & Cara (who always post the best links!)
–This is a must read about Barack Obama!!!! Please get the truth!
A couple of different political perspectives from readers:
–Voting from A Christian Perspective by Caroline
–Election Rambles by Anne
–Some Issues are More Important by Anna
Katie,
I’ve been a long time reader of your blog (think: before Engage the Journey… and even before you switched to WordPress!) and have enjoyed each and every post you write. Thanks so much for the laughs, the crys… the life!
I’ve been keeping up with the election (who hasn’t…) but I hadn’t seen the link you posted about Obama. Thanks for posting it.
I did want to mention one thing, though, about this article. The article seemed to be factual, but one quote made my “little red flags” go up in my heart. Obama said: “I try not to have my religious beliefs dominate or determine my political views…”. (This was concerning gay marriage)
I, personally, am one of the many Americans who are undecided (at this point) as to who to vote for. I am open to each candidate, and have been trying to attain the facts for each party.
But this quote by Obama did stir my heart a bit. As Christians it should be our goal to live our life as “Christ” on earth. If we are living this way, should not our political views be that of Christ-like nature? If Obama does not let his religious beliefs dominate or determine his political views, then what does dominate and determine his views?
If Obama claims to be Christian, I cannot judge him. Only God knows the hearts of men. But it would be my hope that if he has given Christ total control of his life, then Christ would have total control of his political views, as well.
I’m still going to pray about it… think it through. I realize I could be totally off here… but for now, I just wanted to point that phrase out. Perhaps you have a little more insight on this. I know it’s always better to get other’s opinions! 😀
Thanks, once again, for the great posts!
Blessings,
Victoria
PS. I’ve linked my blog on here, but it is password protected. Let me know if you’d like to have “permission” to read it… I’d be more than happy to “let you in” to my little world!
I just wanted to point out that the http://www.matthew25.org is endorsed by Brian McLaren, the leader of the Postmodern Emergent Church. He has lots of heretical teaching, like that the Bible isn’t infallible…and I would kind of assume that most things associated with him would be pretty sketchy and untrustworthy. My brother has written some stuff about McLaren and his beliefs, if you’re interested in reading…
http://plunderthegoods.blogspot.com/2005_04_01_archive.html (just scroll down to the McLaren stuff)
Go and watch this and then tell me you are still willing to post those supposed “facts” about Obama. This 5 minute video changed my life and will be in my mind forever.
I couldn’t agree more with Annie Peterson. That matthew25 site is not factual nor impartial nor significant to Chrisitans. It is not based in Biblical teachings.
If you want to vote for and support Obama, fine, but don’t try and kid yourself that he is anything less that what HE HIMSELF declares himself as. Look at his REAL, factual record. He does in fact support partial birth abortion. And your vote for him would support it too.
I am sorry I am not able to phrase this in a way that is more kind or less passionate… I just feel so strongly about this issue, I hate to see anyone not making a decison based off of TRUTH. I hope you can see past my poorly chosen words or inability to share without bias.
God bless-
Amanda
Kate, you can also go here and check out some of the facts about the VP debate http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,433314,00.html
Here is also a VERY enlightening book on Obama. It is written by Frank’s cousin Stephen Mansfield called THE FAITH OF BARAK OBAMA. He also wrote one called THE FAITH OF GEORGE W BUSH. This book on Obama will open your eyes in a way it hasn’t been before. He is a very scary man concerning the way he believes. Check it out!!!
P S I am praying for you!!!!
Ooopps! I made a late night blunder… I called you Katie!
I have a dear friend of mine who’s name is Katie… so my fingers just went for it without me thinking… 😉
Sorry about that!
Good night!
Oh, I am positive those “facts” are not true. Actually, Obama did say that he would have passed a bill with the federal wording, but he was was one of the people who left the wording out. Babies are left to die in hospitals, and given no care or treatment because they are being “aborted”. That is an actual fact, as absolutely fictional as it sounds.
Thank you everyone for your input. I am looking up these facts to see if I can verify votes and so on…since one group claims one set of facts and another group another.
I do want to point out that while McLaren endorses http://www.matthew25.com I don’t believe his role is any more than that. Its not always 100% fair (in my opinion) to judge something fully based on one of its many supporters.
I really don’t know a ton about this organization- just got sent this link a day ago so I am defending them either- just pointing out that he’s on a long list of endorsements and doesn’t seem to play any other role? Still checking that out
Ashley- I have not read The Faith of Barack Obama (not heard of it, honestly) but I did read the two books he penned. I have to say (and this is not an endorsement of him- esp. because there are some serious accusations here that I want to see if I can verify) but I really enjoyed the books and never got the “Muslim” thing I have heard so much about (that was supposedly taken from the books). I will have to check that book out.
Victoria- I went by “Katie” until college so I didn’t even notice:) Please send me an email invite to your blog: mcdonkate@gmail.com I would love to read it.
thought you all might be interested in this link from Fact Check on the issue of Obama and Infanticide:
http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/obama_and_infanticide.html
It shows has he voted (more recently “present” not yay or nay) Its long, but you have to read through the whole thing to get the full answer to his own statement on this issue:
Obama (to Relevant Magazine):
“The email rumor that’s been floating around is that somehow I’m unwilling to see doctors offer life-saving care to children who were born as a result of an induced abortion. That’s just false. There was a bill that came up in Illinois that was called the “Born Alive” bill that purported to require life-saving treatment to such infants. And I did vote against that bill.
The reason was that there was already a law in place in Illinois that said that you always have to supply life-saving treatment to any infant under any circumstances, and this bill actually was designed to overturn Roe v. Wade, so I didn’t think it was going to pass constitutional muster.
Ever since that time, emails have been sent out suggesting that, somehow, I would be in favor of letting an infant die in a hospital because of this particular vote. That’s not a fair characterization, and that’s not an honest characterization. It defies common sense to think that a hospital wouldn’t provide life-saving treatment to an infant that was alive and had a chance of survival.”
Although its obvious words get twisted and politicians are famous for reinterpreting every vote and “position” they have take, Fact Check does verify that there is a law already in place in IL that requires babies born alive after abortions to be cared for…(quoted from Fact Check): “Illinois compiled statute 720 ILCS 510/6 states that physicians performing abortions when the fetus is viable must use the procedure most likely to preserve the fetus’ life; must be attended by another physician who can care for a born-alive infant; and must “exercise the same degree of professional skill, care and diligence to preserve the life and health of the child as would be required of a physician providing immediate medical care to a child born alive in the course of a pregnancy termination which was not an abortion.” Failure to do any of the above is considered a felony”
You can read statute 720 ILCS 510/6 here:http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs/documents/072005100K6.htm
You can also read a transcript of Obama’s discussion before the bill was voting on in 2001 (pages 84-90) here:http://www.ilga.gov/senate/transcripts/strans92/ST033001.pdf
It does seem that he states he is voting “present” because he feels the bill will be struck down because of its definition of a “fetus” that if accept would go against Roe vs. Wade.
Still digging…. *I am glad you all posted the links you did – I,for one, would like to get as much info on this important topic as possible*
My only thought is this: know who is publishing each site and where their bias lies. I have yet to find a truly unbiased site, article, or see an unbiased news report…ANYWHERE! I read the candidates’ individual sites to see their plans, and then research their backgrounds to see their history and if they are true to their word. Unfortunately, I think all forms of media are becoming more unreliable….and are highly biased. And that’s my two cents.
Chelle- you’ve hit the name on the head! That’s why its so hard to get to the bottom of what ACTUALLY was said or done. Its enough to make anyone lose hope in the “process”- thank goodness our hope lies elsewhere as believers!
Just as an FYI, do a thorough search of factcheck.org. There are actually ties between them and Obama (and even Ayers, for that matter) that shouldn’t be ignored. (The name Annenberg connects them all, so if you decide to search them use that name.)
Now, I’m not saying you can’t necessarily believe anything they say, but they are certainly not impartial, either.
This election has WORN ME OUT. I’m grieved. I will not try to change anyone’s minds at this point, but I will say that I’ve read the actual transcripts of the hearings on the born alive infant protection act….the state ones that Obama was directly involved in. They are extremely lengthy and hard to read through, but they are indisputable.
We all have to draw our lines in the sand, and that was where mine was drawn.
I’m not judging anyone on who they cast their votes for, though. That is between them and God.
Oh, and God will still be in control no matter who wins in November!! He is the real hope for me.
“There was a bill that came up in Illinois that was called the “Born Alive” bill that purported to require life-saving treatment to such infants. And I did vote against that bill.
The reason was that there was already a law in place in Illinois that said that you always have to supply life-saving treatment to any infant under any circumstances, and this bill actually was designed to overturn Roe v. Wade, so I didn’t think it was going to pass constitutional muster.”
Actually, this bill was NOT designed to overturn Roe v. Wade. Even NARAL stated that they did not believe the bill was designed to restrict access to or legality of abortion. (Odd to find NARAL more “conservative” on abortion issues than a candidate!)
It sounds nice that Obama says that the bill wasn’t needed because of other laws. . . But given the history of how the Born Alive Infant Protection Act came to be, those laws were not being interpreted or enforced in such a way that did protect infants.
I can’t believe we are even debating Obama’s position on abortion….he is FOR abortion, does it really matter at what age? He is FOR KILLING a BABY in the WOMB. It isn’t a choice…its not paper or plastic or I’m “green” and have my own reusable bags….its a HUMAN LIFE!
It boils down to this question….is he pro-choice? If so, he is pro-infantcide. period.
“Oh, and God will still be in control no matter who wins in November!! He is the real hope for me.” You said that right Missy! That’s the truth we all need to remember.
I’m sorry, but I really have to post again. 🙂
Obama said that one of the first things he’d do as president would be to sign the Freedom of Choice act. In a nutshell, some of the things that bill would do is to reverse ANY ban (including state bans) of ANY type of abortion (including late term partial birth abortions) It also provides for abortions to be paid for by medicaid.
WE would be paying for abortions (even partial birth abortions) with our tax dollars against our will.
This blog post has a youtube video of Barack himself (can’t argue with video evidence!) along with other helpful info:
http://theologica.blogspot.com/2008/08/obama-and-freedom-of-choice-act.html
Also, check out http://www.jillstanek.com/
The last one has actual scanned documentation. The info on this site is remarkable and concrete. The lady who put it together is a former abortion nurse who testified in front of Obama.
(Sorry, I don’t know how to embed links in a comment.)
Obama has a 100% pro-abortion senate record. He has a 100% rating by Planned Parenthood. He is endorsed by NARAL. I could list more, but you get the point.
One more thing: He claims to only support partial birth abortion if it saves the mother’s life. My question: if the baby is far enough along to qualify as a partial birth abortion, why on earth wouldn’t delivering the baby be a solution for saving the mother??? It is actually less stressing on the mother to deliver than to go through the partial birth abortion.
Anyway!
Look, if anyone wants to vote for Obama that is completely their business, but lets not fool ourselves here about who he is and what he believes! His record speaks for itself. He is on video supporting this. There are records online that proves it all, we just have to take the time to look.
I am not one of those people who think there is one Christian party and anyone else is going to hell. I believe many true Christians will in fact vote for Obama and still be headed for Heaven just as much as those who voted McCain! But we shouldn’t try to sugar coat his views on abortion to justify that vote—they are well documented.
Related to what Missy wrote, you might want to check out RealChoice.
Wow. I move across the country and look what happens on your blog! These comments (and America) are saddening to me. And just for the record, I’m a McLaren fan. Have you heard him in person? I did, at the National Pastor’s Convention in Nashvegas. p.s. what if a Christian was pro-choice? It seems like your readers would tar and feather them:) Oh boy, Kate, good on you for taking all this on, better you than me, though I’m sure I’ll have my day soon, moving to TX this week!
I don’t know why I came backto this post… but what a sad comment from “Case.”
There is no such thing as a Pro-Choice Christian.
The definition of a Christian is someone who follows the teachings of Jesus Christ.
The Bible is pretty clear that the murder of innocent babies is wrong. So therefore, you either support what the world says is ok (i.e. toleance, politically correct, murder, etc.) or you follow Jesus.
And people that say things like…”these comments are saddening to me…” scare me because people like that preach tolerance, for everyone opinion but the one that is opposite theirs.
And Amen Ester.
God bless-
Amanda
this is a great post as well…http://savagepolitics.com/?p=2156
thanks for posting about Matthew 25, and for your kind words about what we’re up to… we posted an snippet of it here:
http://www.matthew25.org/2008/10/more-bloggers-posts-on-matthew-25thanks.html
relating to the abortion issue, we did recently launch a sister site on that very issue:
http://www.prolifeproobama.com
O.K. this will be my last post…..
I can not believe that people that say they are Christians are so lost. They attach a Bible verse to a website and call it Christian and fool others into actually believing that this is what the Word of God teaches?!? Let’s not twist the real Truth. If you want to vote for Obama, or any candidate that does not have Biblical moral values, then that’s on you, but please do not distort the truth on what they truly support and more importantly what the Absolutes of God are.
Kate, I am not questioning your Christianity only your judgement and your motives into labeling such a sight as “truth”.
This is a heated topic and I was not saying that website is “truth” – I was simply urging people to get the truth. I said that because a lot of people get their best information from email forwards and instead of reading a book to get the context, they believe the simple quotation on the news… I was interested mostly (to be honest) in saying that Obama is not Muslim or a terrorists. HE’s never claimed not to be pro-choice..the comments here focused on that, but I wasn’t
I think its important for all believers to really take a good hard look at the candidates and to remember as Chelle said somewhere in these comments..it is hard to find that actual truth because in the age we live in there is SO MUCH MEDIA and its all slanted one way or another. I have never endorsed a candidate and if you read what I had to say about the elections in the two Vote for Jesus posts, I think I am quite clear about where my allegiance lies and Who my hope is in.
The things I wanted to bring light to were the lies about Obama that he is Muslim or a terrorist… I did not make mention of his stance on abortion because that is well documented. I also listed 2 posts from readers that are very Pro-life (which apparently few people noticed or read, sadly, because the posts are very good) I have said I am staunchly pro-life and I am. I make no bones about that.
I am just tired of Christians thinking that Republican and Christian are synonymous and THEY ARE NOT. I am tired of Christians perpetuating lies about a candidate when very few of them have actually taken the time to read his books!
I hate that Obama is pro-choice. Hate it. Its the reason my vote is unsure. But to make a man who had an affair with his now-wife (Cindy McCain) while he was still married to his first (and lied about it to Cindy) the beacon of “morality” in this election makes me sick. Few Christians wanted McCain as the nominee but then somehow now its not hard for people to get behind him now despite the fact that he is not very conservative.
The thing I want Christians to stop doing is acting like any of us can know these mens’ hearts…either one. THey both claim faith in Christ and I think they are both wrong on some things, but since I am not God, I have no right to judge their souls.
Period. If that’s bad judgement and motivation, than ok.
The thing that alarms me about this is the defensive way a few people have reacted to these political posts, in which I have stated over and over again, I am not saying who I am voting for, I am not a person who sides with a political party, and I am not endorsing anyone. All I have said is that I am for Jesus and I want to cooperate with what He is doing and that I don’t think I can reason enough to know that- that instead I MUST rely on prayer and the Spirit of God.
You know what I wonder? I wonder if I wrote a post about faith that some people disagreed with, I wonder if there would be this much debate over it…? Or if the Christians in this country are giving their best energy and time and allegiance to political issues instead?
To answer your last question, at least for me, I can’t separate my faith and my politics. My faith IS my political stance.
I said before, I don’t think voting Democrat damns anyone to hell, but I can not in good conscious vote in favor of ANYONE, no matter how charismatic, who will advocate killing a baby, especially one who by all rights is perfectly able to live on it’s own. I will not vote for a man who will use my money to fund such murders. It is a thick and distinct line in the sand for me.
As for McCain’s divorce, I can’t help but think that there is a HUGE difference between his sin thirty years ago, and Obama’s very present intention to expand abortion and force me to fund it. Big difference.
His current agenda is against God. Extremely against God. Is that even arguable? Right now, this minute, his public confession has been that his first priority as president is to re-allow partial birth abortion and the public funding thereof. Voting for him, in my opinion, makes us accomplices in that sin. We’re saying it’s okay with us.
I’m not in agreement with McCain’s past sins by any means. But as far as I know, that is completely in the past and for all I know he has repented that sin. Obama is still advocating sin in many ways.
To me, that is the difference.
I, too, struggled with who to support in this election. What it comes down to, for me, is balancing the candidates’ records against the Word of God. Neither man is perfect. Both of them, like all of us, are sinful. Both profess faith in Christ. But I decided on McCain/Palin. Here’s why:
1. Obama is pro-choice and voted against the Born Alive act. He claimed semantics for voting against it…but he really just could not bring himself to vote for anything that would limit a woman’s “right” to choose. McCain is not only pro-life, but he and Cindy adopted a baby with special medical needs…a baby that some might have aborted had they known of the problems.
2. Obama wants the government to provide to the people what God tells us the church should provide to the people. Jesus did not tell GOVERNMENTS to feed the poor, look out for orphans and widows, give a drink of water to the thirsty. His instructions were for us individually. Yes, our tax dollars provide some charity assistance to the hungry; but what would actually spread the gospel better: giving someone government-printed food stamps (or debit cards), or you and me taking a meal and clothing over to a hungry family and developing a relationship with them? McCain is for smaller government….if Christians have to fork over less to the government, that frees up even more that they can give to the poor.
3. Obama is a socialist at heart. I don’t write that lightly. Look up comments he has made about the lower classes, middle classes, and upper classes, and compare them to comments Karl Marx made in the 1800s. It’s the same message, only Marx used the words “proletariat” and “bourgeois.” Obama thinks that any wealth in this country should be spread around to the lower classes; I believe this is in direct opposition to Paul’s teaching that those who don’t work, don’t eat…and also to Jesus’ teaching that the worker deserves his wages. Socialism is one step away from communism, which stamps out all religious freedom (think China, Cuba, the former USSR). I would prefer our nation to move away from socialism with our income tax and more towards capitalism with the FairTax.
4. But mostly I know that the Lord moves the heart of the king; he directs it like a stream of water. Ultimately it’s in His very capable hands, and I trust him. So, on election day, I will vote my conscience and then trust God, no matter who gets elected.
I’ll put this out there knowing that many you will disagree or judge. I am a Christian. I am also a woman who has had an abortion. I did this many years ago, way before I came to know Christ. I’ve walked on both sides of the road, I guess you could say. Knowing what I know now I wouldn’t do anything different. It’s SUCH a difficult decision, to make that choice, and I’m so glad I was able to do so. I think about what might have been from time to time, sure, but I don’t sit much in regret. I wonder if some of you judging on this board has been in a place of such desperation, of feeling so lost, of feeling like there was no other choice? I guess I’ll assume no based on all of your comments.
I’ll vote for Obama based on my own experience, and I do believe you can be a pro-choice Christian. I now have two healthy children that I love dearly that I am training up to love the Lord. I hope I can help them see a place where abortion is never necessary
I’m not sure how I stumbed upon your blog Kate but you a solid writer and its great reading your daily ponderings You are brave to enter into the realm of the intersection between religion and politics – this is not easy territory as the above debate has revealed. I think though, that we are called to discuss this – Jesus was a political figure, not something many people accept because of his line about Caesar and God but He was a political leader who did take on the establishment and was called to be King. This is an idea that goes back to the Old Testament, first in Deuteronomy, and then in the prophets with Samuel, etc. its not man who is King, but God is King, and Jesus is there reestablishing it in a very different way than the rest of the line of David.
I just wanted to leave some thoughts and make a request. I started out my voting history as a values voter, filling out the name in accordance with my christian coalition pamphlet given to me by my pastor. Slowly though, my values have shifted. First, I am convinced by my experiences that the pro-life/pro-choice issue is simply there to rally the base. What has the government done – from either side to openly advocate abortion or to stem the number of abortions or overturn roe vs. wade. Certainly it is wrong to use abortion as birth control, but it is also wrong to limit all birth control options. many young women today cannot afford to pay for birth control and yet the abortion is free…something is wrong with that picture. In addition, what about the cost of being a parent these days and our society is doing very little to help those struggling and in poverty. I am sure some may say that is not our role as a society/government because of that good ol’ Protestant individualism work ethic – but we are pretty singular as a country as many around the world truely see it as their Christian duty to provide for the poor and those in need.
Being a government employee for some time, I see so many other issues than abortion/gay marriage that should disturb our values. What about our the future of our democracy, torture, enormous deficits, a war build on mistruths, the abuse of power and cronyism? What about justice and compassion? What about Jesus’ life verse – if we demand our government to uphold the values of our “christian” nation, why aren’t we demanding they ” bring good news to the poor…proclaim release to the captives and recovery of the sight of the blind, to let the oppressed go free, to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.” (luke 4:18), which in many ways is Jesus’ life verse from Isaiah 60.
ending abortions is a critical issue indeed – and truly at its core a matter of justice – not to mention that God makes clear blood should not be shed (with exceptions). I am curious though, what doesthe bible really say on this issue? I have some of my own thoughts – the injunction on not murdering in the “10 commandments,” the injunction that the life is in the blood in Leviticus, the condemnation of kings that allowed the Israelites to mix and be influenced by those who sacrified their children in hinnon. How about you? If the bible is truly our guide, and inerrant as some of you believe, how does it guide you on this issue? This is not a challenge, but I find it extremely edifying and educational to learn how other people interpret the Word particularly on an important issue that in many respects, has shaped my generation’s view of how to interact with the political sphere.
I’m a on-again-off-again reader but admire the way you have been transparent with various struggles. People, especially people in the church, aren’t real with other Christians or even themselves about the struggles and sins that hold them in bondage….in some respects your Blog is breath of air.
I just wanted to say a few things and touch on a few different points in my comment, I hope you can follow my logic.
There are moral absolutes and I believe that they are knowable by man. I believe that truth, Gods absolute truth, is found in the Bible. Issues such as abortion are extremely clear in God’s Word. I think the reason many followers of Christ get stuck on that single issue and don’t get to other issues like poverty, the oppressed, racism, being stewards of the earth God has given us, etc is because abortion is a no-brainer. There are different strategies on how to care for the poor and to what extent, same with other above issues…but abortion is a no-brainer and I think many Christians can’t get past the shock that someone doesn’t get it. If that offends anyone I cannot apologize for the Word of God. If you had an abortion before you were a follower of Christ I believe you will be reunited with that child in heaven and there will be joy, not regret or pain. I believe you can be a pro-choice Christian just like a Christian can commit adultery, lie on income taxes, or refuses to forgive another…but you are in direct violation of God’s absolute truths and there are natural and supernatural consequences.
For the record, I’m not a McCain supporter – on the issue of abortion. I don’t understand how he can say the unborn is a precious, innocent life and deserves a right to live in one case but in another case (incest or rape) justify abortion as if the life is less precious, innocent, or deserving to live. I am a third party voter because if you can’t get the no-brainer right, you won’t get the difficult ones right – social issues, economy, national security, etc.
So….after a long winded post I just want to leave you all with something to think about regarding the choices we make and the things we let rule our lives.
Jonah 2:8 – “Those who cling to worthless idols, forfeit the grace that could have been theirs.”
In C.S Lewis’s Prince Caspian, after ignoring Aslan’s instructions to follow him, Lucy tried to ask Aslan what might have happened if she had obeyed his voice sooner, following him instead of making excuses. The Great Lion replied, “To know what would have happened, child?…No. Nobody is ever told that.”
What worthless idols, ideas, priorities, causes, God-replacements do we cling to….all while losing what God really had in store for us?
Oh boy, Kate… you’re terribly brave to attempt this topic. (I do thoroughly appreciate your complete concession that like the rest of us, you don’t know it all… you’re just hunting down facts too)
Anyway, comments above aside, I found this one sentence very interesting:
Obama didn’t vote for the Born Alive bill because he “didn’t think it was going to pass constitutional muster.” (for various reasons)
That’s downright silly, if you ask me. If you’re voting against it, you’re voting against it. The reasons aren’t that important. If you agree with something, vote for it… and let those further down the line in the judicial branch do their job and interpret whether it’s constitutional.
Seems like a thinly veiled excuse.
This whole election sickens me. The mudslinging, the name calling, the sheer amount of hatred for the other parties. Not to mention all of the lies. Americans shouldn’t have to dig so far behind sources that we’re practically talking to the candidates themselves (not that it would make the lies less prevalent). But in a time when the media itself is so biased, it’s scary to think that most likely EVERY ounce of information we see is probably skewed or downright false.
As for the two main candidates? Blah on both for different reasons. I’m probably voting Libertarian.
How sad, how terribly sad. “The more things change the more they stay the same.”
Kate,
I’m laughing at the statement that you’re not endorsing anyone. As if “I’m voting for Obama” isn’t written all over your posts.
Maybe Christians vote on the “token” [the word you used] issues because they point to one’s values & morals. You can tell a lot about a person by finding out whether or not they value human life.
You’re a nice person – I think if you’re dealing with depression you may want to stay away from political topics. It’s just probably not a good thing. Probably not a way to make friends.
How very Christian of you “Name.”
Name:
WOW! Such harsh words!
It’s one thing to express your opinion, but another to make personal jabs at the author.
Dude (or Dudette), can’t we all just get along?!?
[…] Our family would not be the same without him! -Seems there have been some interested comments on this post that I plan to address. (although I am really ready for that thread to die- anyone else with […]
Like Penny said, it’s one thing to express your opinion. It’s another thing to actually have the face to leave your name.
It’s disappointing how people want to join a discussion to insult others, but don’t even have the muster to use their name or email so the same doesn’t happen to them.
It’s so sad that a political discussion can’t happen without THAT happening.
Name,
I would like to respond to you in email but since you left neither your name nor your email, the only place I can respond to you is here.
I usually find when I am tempted to write something anonymously its because either I don’t want to answer for my words OR my words are inappropriate in one way or another. I love the new ads on TV to stop internet bullying…have you guys seen them? Basically it says “if you wouldn’t say it in person don’t type it online”. Since you could not stay anonymous and say this to me in person, I wonder if you would’ve still been so quick to take a stab at my struggle with depression?
I want to say, however, that I am not mad. I never take down comments posted on my blog even if they are hurtful to me because I think that sort of defeats the purpose of allowing comments. I have posted things before that I regretted or should have regretted. I have had to make apologies for sharp words to people I don’t know and people I do. It happens.
As for endorsing a candidate, I am curious if you read my two posts called “Vote for Jesus”? I think I state very clearly my allegiance to God over politics and my belief that God is one who establishes authority and sets kings on their thrones. I am going to cast a vote, but in my heart I know God is working this all to his eventual end of returning for His Church so I won’t sweat either candidate being elected. I think its funny you think saying “I am undecided” means “I am voting for Obama”. Did you see the three links below the Obama website? One link is to a post by a reader who as a Christian has decided not to vote and the other two links are to posts by two readers who are one issue voters and are pro-life. I was attempting to represent the varying beliefs of my readers so that everyone could read about the differing perspectives. All of the links I posted were sent to me by readers. I would not ever endorse a candidate because I believe voting is personal and about convictions. You can’t tell another person who to vote anymore than you can give someone a conviction.
As for token issues, I like what Ricky said in comment #27 on this post. A lot of people stop thinking at abortion because it really is what matters most to them but others do it because the answer to abortion is simple. He’s right to say that how to deal with our earth, our money, and the poor among us are harder topics because its not so BLACK AND WHITE. I happen to think these issues are also moral and should concern the believer: stewardship of the earth (Remember this is one of the first commands given to humans by God in Genesis), stewardship of our money (personally and as a country), and how we deal with the poor…do you know how many references there are in the Bible to caring for the poor? To get an idea, you might want to visit this website:
http://home.snu.edu/~hculbert/poor.htm
I don’t think that is a small moral or spiritual issue. The issue of how to deal with/care for the poor is close to my heart as in my work I spend a lot of time with some of the truly poor people in our country… the young mothers, the homeless, the mentally ill, the abused, the abandoned, the disenfranchised, those who have been enabled by our country to continue in a life of meaninglessness, those caught in the cycle of poverty…
I was certainly not saying because issues are “token” means they aren’t real concerns, but rather that they are not the only moral issues!
Please don’t forget I have I said over and over that I am pro-life. I have four adopted brothers, two of whom have special needs. I know we wouldn’t have them if the world operated like some people think. I have had the opportunity to speak several times about my pro-life beliefs. I am one who thinks the life of the unborn and the life of those who are walking earth are both precious. There are a lot of policies that affect both and both should be considered.
As for the personal jab at my depression…I know when I write certain personal things on this blog, that some people will not comment and use them as fodder for gossip. I know others, like you, are likely to exploit things I have been through to make your point. It happens.
I do want to say, though, on behalf of anyone who has struggled with depression…that fighting with that particular Enemy does not disqualify anyone from sharing and writing with validity. Let’s not forget portions of the Bible could be characterized as “depressed”… Lamentations isn’t exactly a cheer for the glass is half full party! Jeremiah was known as the “weeping prophet”- what about all of the psalms David wrote in the midst of wondering, where is God? Why do the wicked prosper and the Godly suffer? Isn’t that the root of depression? I will not apologize for writing while struggling… if people only wrote when they were completely fine and clear handed, I venture to say there would be no more books or articles or blogs. I am thankful for the journey my life has taken even in the last year. God is teaching me so much about my need for him and growing in me a desire for compassion and mercy I don’t think I could’ve known without these trials.
I am not sure I started this blog to make friends, but just the same, I am happy to have made some good friends who have not always agreed with me, but who have graciously shared their opinions and allowed me to read their thoughts and ideas about faith. I am certainly FAR FAR FAR from being perfect and I am sure I miss the mark on things I write more often than I even know, but I do try to write honestly and with respect for people who read and may disagree. I am a passionate person who sometimes borders on “feisty” and needs reigned in (readers can feel free to do that 🙂 ) There are HUGE gaps in my understanding and knowledge. I pray for God to fill them in with His Wisdom and Spirit.
You know, I do hope this blog connects with people and making friends along the way is a plus…but really when I started writing again a month or so ago, I did it because I know sharing about my depression, my marriage struggles, being a mom, and a follower of Jesus who often is nursing a limp will connect with other people who’ve walked or ARE walking down the same uncertain paths. My only hope is that God will use it in some meager way to encourage someone and let them know they aren’t alone. Along the way, readers are going to get some of my personal commentary…which I try to always add “this is my perspective” and “other views are welcome”.
One other question (should you decide to write me an email)- did you honestly mean that you wouldn’t be friends with someone who had a different political view than you? I mean, it seems like you linked your thought that I shouldn’t post about politics with not making friends. If that’s true (that you only have friends who think just like you) than its kind of sad… and I do not mean that condescendingly like ‘isn’t that sad’ but as in I think its truly unfortunate. The only reasons I can think for not being friends with people who think differently are 1.) You think you are 100% right and they are 100% wrong and 2.) You have a world view that was reflected also in the last anonymous comment I received in which I was accused of attacking my own “team”- To me, viewing the world as “my team” and “the other team” is not only dangerous and HUGELY over- simplified, but also very unlike Christ.
Its apparent, “Name” that you have only read tidbits of what I written…sometimes judging someone on the basis of a small snapshot is short sided.
If you want to talk to me, here’s my email: mcdonkate@gmail.com You can feel free to write me and I would be glad to dialogue with you. No hard feelings.
Holy Cow!! This IS a wild discussion. Having worked in the church for nearly 6 years now I feel this tug-of-war constantly – between believers. I love what the Word tells us the Body of Christ SHOULD BE, but what it has become seriously pains me.
Anyways – I have a very strong political opinion and ya know what it does/has from time to time challenged how I love individuals or groups of peopl. And that is downright wrong. I have come to the conclusion that Loving people, the way Jesus instructed us to, and the way He did, is simply very, very difficult. And I have to work on it everyday, in every encounter. Loving people is hard.
I have not yet come to the point where I don’t have fear over one candidate over the other making office – however I do know that whomever is elected I will spend my time praying for him instead of WASTING breath complaining and bickering – oh, where this country would be, if only the Body of Christ (all, not some) prayed for its leader. If we loved him.
Hi Kate!
Thanks for visiting. I’ll be glad when the election is over. When my family starts talking politics, I go in the other room. 🙂 We have people voting for both sides in my family, and I refuse to let politics divide my family. We either choose to agree to disagree, or I just don’t engage.
I thought your reply to Name was very thoughtful and wise. Sometimes people just want to zoom in, slam someone and race off again. I think your reasoned discussion is quite unbiased. There is so much bias apparent against Obama, that if you simply try to sort through that and point out the inaccuracies, it could sound like you are supporting him.
It’s really none of anyone’s business who we vote for anyway. But it is important to have fair and impartial information available. Both sides twist and distort information, taking much of it out of context. It’s stupid.
I just wanted to tell you that I think you moderate this with such grace and tact. You do a great job.
Feel free to post a link if you like. Have a great day, Kate!
The Audacity
If you have 15 min. this is very interesting:
http://www.eyeblast.tv/public/video.aspx?RsrcID=2036